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Post by burnclean on Mar 9, 2021 21:28:47 GMT -8
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Post by burnclean on Mar 4, 2021 20:20:54 GMT -8
If your serious about a pottery kiln I would check out the Fred Olson Kiln book. It is an excellent resource on the subject. I built the fast fire kiln from that book. It has 2 burn boxes on opposite corners that are rather huge. The ware area was a little larger than a cubic yard. That thing ate the wood and did not burn clean at all. When it really got going about 10 hours in flames would be shooting out of the 16 foot chimney. Scary as hell! I fired it with pallet scraps and it would take about a truckload per firing. That was to cone 10. Thank you for engaging me on this here ! I appreciate the others input about it being unrealistic to dry wood, but essentially its a lesser desire. Really the pottery kiln is first and foremost. It took me a while to come back to the forum its really just been such a busy time and now spring is coming on. So Joseph you told me about Fred Olson but then you mentioned it didn't seem practical. But there must be a way. Id like to turn the focus to the kiln so maybe I need to start another thread but maybe not. I really want a super efficient rocket stove kiln. There are amazing woodfired kilns out there I remember seeing them on the WWW over the years. I havent seen in person. Someone can help me with this maybe its you Joseph. I mean here's a design I'm definitely willing to hire and help with. Because its super critical infrastructure for our self sufficient and healthy endeavors. So what do you think? Fred Olsen had something cleaner? or could someone on here help design something new and bright. Maybe we can make a FAT 10" or 12" or multiple 6/8" systems that are fired in sync. Just some random ideas. If you are already burning a truck load of pallets, then I'd love to add a retort element to this, where we end up with a charcoal output as well. Wood drying, ill leave/allocate to the passive solar dehydrator/wood drying green house type deal.
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Post by burnclean on Jan 30, 2021 17:43:34 GMT -8
By the way, I gave a lot of thought to passive solar kilns , which are awesome for drying some wood, but the truth is I want to be able to rapidly dry wood. And really I don't know how long it would take in a rocket batch fired kiln, I suppose that is quite variable considering the parameters and all of that. Thanks folks. Al
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Post by burnclean on Jan 30, 2021 17:41:30 GMT -8
Hey guys, I'm not active on here, but I love what everyone is doing, their best to heat, cook, and live with cleaner burning methods, sustainable natural fuels, and so on.
This is Alex in Chapel Hill, NC for a few of the guys who know me. We've built a batch rocket with Joseph and Caleb, and (2) Matt Walker style continental cooking stoves, one built with Joseph and Caleb's help and the other was built by my friend Hari. Honestly I only helped as a resource, and labor element to any of the projects, looking on fondly with glee, because I just love rocket stoves. I like to build them too. I'm just lucky to have had help!
I'm looking for ideas, links, threads, new concepts etc, because I really want to build a rocket stove fired kiln. I want it to be "family homstead sized" where a given family can quickly, decissively dry all the fire wood they need for 2-3 years , they can also dry firewood/slab/ and even food items, for storage, commercial use, or what have you.
Said Kiln, should be the size of a small room say 10'x10'x10' (3x3x3 meters). This room would be suitable for drying firewood rapidly, it could or ought to also be able to fire ceramic. Perhaps there a smaller kiln connected to the same system so you can "switch it over" to fire small batches of ceramic, and in the large room, dry firewood/slabs, etc.
What would make this even better would be a built in retort that is producing some charcoal with every firing. Around here, we love us the heck out of charcoal and resultant biochar. We love what it can do for the soil, the microbes, the plants and in the end the earth and all of us. Carbon folks, its just good stuff (when its in the right place!).
We have a lot of fire brick, and indeed I want to make most of this kiln from firebrick, but I will use steel and other refractory materials as needed. I also wouldnt mind utilizing cob or somethng for any part of this, but I do want it to be long lasting and for that reason may likely have this under roof.
I'm willing to cut up a shipping container if I had to. Sometimes I think we can hook up a big batch rocket to a shipping container and dry a hell of a lot of wood. I think its possible. Can anyone help point me in the right direction?
The largest scale I would do is probably a 20' shipping container.
But a 10'x10'x10' room or metal/steel tank , cut the top off, hinge it and gasket it, turn it sideways, load wet firewood, close it, light the batch rocket attached to the back and use the "bell" as the kiln? Or need there be a "bell" within a "bell"?
Thanks folks you all are brilliant and I'm all ears. I think you know what I'm after and I want to benefit the world and be sustainable and resilient at the same time. I think you all want the same, have a nice weekend.
Al
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Post by burnclean on Jan 2, 2018 17:13:25 GMT -8
It would be great if you could estimate the weight of your fuel load, as well as indicate what type of wood it is. Oak is far different than willow, obviously. Yes sir, I am using red oak / white oak / hickory mix, and actually it may be feasible to way this firewood I will dry to do so tomorrow.
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Post by burnclean on Jan 2, 2018 9:36:08 GMT -8
Hey all,
So I wanted to give a more objective set of read outs. Today is the day. Its cold, and it won't go above freezing today. I'm going to give read outs every 3 hours, with a set amount of wood for each burn.
For the record, I am reading from the same place each time, top of bell where bell is hottest, wall 10' from bell and floor 15' from the stove. Using the same laser thermo Ive been using.
Each read out I will be adding 6 pieces of standard sized fire wood: 16" long, and 4-5" wide wood (40 cm long, 10-13 cm wide), it is very dry but I don't have a moisture meter to give that reading. It is a mix of red oak / white oak and hickory wood.
A final note on this is that due to the door and frame we chose to use for the firebox, I can typically only pack about 80% of the box full - easily. Basically there is a lip hanging over the top of the box, so I am not always packing it full full. So this is a normal amount of wood I will put in at a time 6 pieces, basically an arm full, although occasionally I will pack the box totally full which is maybe 8-10 pieces. And it typically does burn down in about 3 hours. So I think 3 hours is a good span to use.
I will simply edit this one post to keep it simple.
1st read out was 8am:
8am - 10 F / -12 C outside this morning 83 F / 28 C starting bell temp 63 F / 17 C starting bench temp 56 F / 13 C wall temp 56 F / 13 C floor temp
Now adding first 6 pieces of wood for 1st batch.
2nd batch: 6 pieces of wood 11am- 22 F / -5 C outside 188 F / 86 C current bell temp 75 F / 23 C current bench temp 68 F / 20 C wall temp 57 F / 13 C floor temp
2pm- Not adding wood at this time, its plenty warm inside - 30 F / -1 C outside 233 F / 111 C current bell temp 108 F / 42 C current bench temp 80 F / 26 C wall temp 60 F / 15 C floor temp
6pm- added 5 pieces of wood for the 3rd batch of day. 24 F / -4 C outside 236 F / 113 C current bell temp 111 F / 43 C current bench temp 75 F / 23 C wall temp 62 F / 16 C floor temp
8pm- added 7 pieces of wood for the 4rd batch of day. 20 F / -6 C outside 316 F / 157 C current bell temp 127 F / 52 C current bench temp 99 F / 37 C wall temp 71 F / 21 C floor temp
So that is 4 batches in a day, today, 24 pieces total maybe will put one more final batch before rest. It got a little hectic with some family visiting, but I will likely add 6/7 pieces more before the end of the night.
See you soon.
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 19:54:59 GMT -8
Here's a couple more stats from a couple hours ago, now the bell has cooled off a little I am getting ready to put in last batch. I would say these readings are from 5 batches today. It is currently 27 F / -2 C here. The read outs were looking like: 300 F / 148 C at the top of the bell BENCH temps read: 133, 103, 90 F / 56, 39, 32 C - going from closest to bell to tail of bench The room is really as warm as we would want it, any more would reach sauna status. The walls read 95 F / 35 C floors range from 70-80F, about 21 C Funny enough I don't have a proper air temp thermometer , which means I have to kind of guess the room temp which is really 75-85 F degrees its quite warm. My wife is saying its "toasty" upstairs this evening and that it feels like summer. Thats a little unnatural - but honestly I will not normally run it very very hot, I will just keep the room around 65-70 F and keep the chill off. Overall its incredible how efficient and easy it is to use this batch rocket. Truly a blessing. I think I will do some readings next week during the bottom of the lower temps we will get which is 13 F, or -10 C at the lowest in this time frame. These are the lower temps we've gotten yet this year and I'm sure more to come. Considering that I can make the room "uncomfortably" warm, I am pleased because I want to be able to off set VERY cold temperatures at any time. and I feel we've accomplished that ! Thanks I hope this is helpful...
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 15:29:38 GMT -8
Did you build your core to Peter's spreadsheet specs? To my knowledge we are exactly to Peter's specs for an 8" system, including the ISA etc. Actually Brian and Joseph sort of brained this build, so I'll have to let Brian give any specifics there. Here's some current temps, I'm loading batch 4 today. Its 6:25 pm, Now 32 degrees outside. the top of bell reads 245 F the bench 116, 95, 85 F (going along the bench) the floor 77 F, walls 74-80 F range.
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 15:25:01 GMT -8
the base of the chimney up to about heads height is 32 F is that temp of the chimney metal pipe or brick chimney or? It is an all brick chimney that was on the barn already, we were attempting to retro fit it with this heater.
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 10:15:55 GMT -8
In my opinion bypasses are useful for starts when the weather outside is warm and the stove is cold. If you have outside temps in the 30's you should not need the bypass regardless. A heater the size of yours should have plenty of thermal storage to go 24 hours between firings with enough left over heat to prime the chimney. I believe you have some design issues that need to be addressed. Smoke from the top of the bell should never happen in my opinion. Okay now I have a better understanding. Yes when we were first test firing the weather was warmer outside than inside (haha) so im sure thats why we got tiny streamings of smoke or vapor from the top of bell. Now I understand that if its colder outside that wont be the case and you're right theres enough residual heat here. So now we are warming the bench ! Yes, our design could be improved but, there is some room for stratification under the bench, it could just be more, im aware of that...
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 10:09:47 GMT -8
yea, what's your exit temp (bench to the chimney)? That will tell you if you're using the mass. I'm not sure how to accurately measure that, as my chimney is so tall - will try the infrared laser at the top of the chimney and see if anything seems relevant. The outside is 32 F, the base of the chimney up to about heads height is 32 F, then the middle of the chimney is higher about 40, the top back down to 32, theres no noticeable smoke or vapors coming from the chimney. That was a bit earlier. Heres our current read out: 1pm 1.5 batches burned (burning) 37 degrees outside top of bell 188 F top of bench 85 F, 78 F, 74 F (start middle end of bench respectively) interior wall temps 75 floor temps 65 (raw cement slab) Overall comfy right now. I am getting ready to load another full batch here, and we are going to post some bench temps today.
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Post by burnclean on Dec 29, 2017 8:31:01 GMT -8
You've got a lot of mass (thermal storage) you aren't using. Fix the design problems and get the benches warming so you can store heat in them, you will get a much longer heat cycle. Also, that bypass is so high in your bell, I recommend not using it at all during the heating season. Thanks Matt. You're right. for some reason we thought the bell and chimney had to be much hotter in order for it to flow properly through the bench. previously if I closed the bypass when bell was lower than 300 F, it would have tiny streamings of smoke very subtle but visible, coming from top of bell. Now I closed the by pass and the bell is reading 100 F and it is functioning. Not sure if that was early steam off, or just some off gasings or something from mortar. Anyways heres some readings for today: now 31 F here, high of 42 today, dropping into high 20s tonight. We put our first batch in today, the bell reads 100 F, the bench 77, 72, 68 F (next to bell, mid bench, and bench tail respectively) Room surface temp about 60-62 as we get the fire going today. About 70 F floor/ wall surface temps within 4/5' of the bell. Lets see how hot I can get the bench today, as I will leave the bypass closed all day. When you recommend , do not use the bypass at all during heating season, is that another way of just saying "keep your stove hot" - because if the stove is out for some time and temps are cold enough, we definitely require the bypass to get it going - at least I think ! Our chimney is about 30' of brick give or take.
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Post by burnclean on Dec 28, 2017 7:44:24 GMT -8
Today temperatures will not reach above freezing. High of 32 / 0 degrees, I feel that this is a good day to give an example how we are operating with the batch rocket.
On start up this morning about 9am the room read: floors 54 F walls 61 F bell 77 F
I have burned one batch it is now closer to 11am, now loaded a second batch the room temps have remained somewhat consistent. the bell is up to 173 F, bench 59 F, bypass is open and we are "heating the chimney" real well. Again room temps have not changed much.
I have to say that I am feeling that I would be interested to add a radiant heat batch rocket even within this 1200 sq ft space.
Reason being, at air temps in the house of 50/60, it is not totally uncomfortable - but still cool, and the mass batch rocket is not heating up really at the rate you would hope, but at an understandable rate. Perhaps I could be loading wood over the evening and I have in the past but my hope was to be able to retain enough warmth within the space to not have to continuously load wood. That may not be the case. and again I admit maybe the cracks are all not sealed we are 95% sealed, need to mud a couple spots.
On the other hand its possible that by increasing the benches height we could then add smoke to the benches sooner than later and pull more heat off of this one firebox. That is a consideration.
I also previously considered adding a radiant metal element to this bell/bench system, like a 1/2 can or something with a bypass to be able to get radiant heat whenever desired. Any thoughts?
But I am considering adding a simple single or dual can bell in this same space to have some immediate warmth as we are awaiting the long term warmth of the mass. I guess its best of both worlds Im after... Also I am always considering a scenario where no one is home for 24-48 hours or something and when we return its freezing inside, so to be able to have immediate heat - important in emergency type situations etc.
Again I would like to reiterate that I am preparing for arctic weather and what I mean by that is -32 F, or -35 C. I would like to be able to generate the heat we need. will post some smaller posts today with stats. I need to order an air temp thermometer I just have this infrared surface thermo.
Thanks.
Alex
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Post by burnclean on Dec 27, 2017 9:29:42 GMT -8
Last night reached just to freezing 32/0 degrees, and today we are in the 40's, when I got up these were some readings:
The bell was sitting at 88 degrees F, no noticeable embers in the box, though usually some small ones insulated in ash, just a nice warm residual warmth coming off the bell.
The family room walls read 65 degrees F, the floor 63 degrees F.
I did not start a fire this morning because its not even so cold,
Its now 12:30 pm, the walls read 63 degrees, floors 60, the bell 75 degrees, and the floor around the bell 67 degrees F.
So just to give an idea how we are holding temperatures in the 40's.
Weather suggests its dropping to 20 degrees tonight, and lows over the next week 18,17,17,14,15 etc, so I will report how we are performing.
Thanks be well.
Alex
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Post by burnclean on Dec 26, 2017 17:48:17 GMT -8
Hey guys, I haven't had much time at the computer, and its true my connection really bites im under a metal roof and they wont bring the cable where I live  so I wont kick down for satellite, can you blame me? Its easier for me to text Brian photos and he puts them up much easier !
So, I would like to expand more on the results of how this batch rocket is working and especially over the next week here in NC as we are having below freezing nights all week, its gonna be exciting. Everything is relative but essentially here in North Carolina, USA we are about to get a few nights of below freezing temperatures and we can get a really good idea of the performance of this batch rocket.
We chose to wall in our 3/4s insulated barn space and now we have basic standard "framing, fiberglass, drywall" all the way around about 1/4 of the barn. Look at it this way, 1/4 of the barn was 3/4 insulated, and now 1/4 of the barn is 100% insulated. Thats the space we're in.
Perhaps not the greenest most earthy set up but we intend for this to be a community space in the future and will eventually build our own mud house to live in    For now its practical and it works for us. We feel like we are in a town house inside of a barn if that makes sense.
Heres the specs, I just pulled a tape tonight, merry christmas and happy holidays and all that to you all folks:
Our space is 1200 sq ft, (600 down stairs, 600 up. nice split)
kitchen, family room, 1/2 bath dowstairs, bedroom, mini closet, full bath upstairs.
We insulated with r-19 fiberglass on the 4th wall, there are also 2 french doors in the wall with some energy efficient glass (I think its vacumn double pane) They were the cheapest I could find.
If this is helpful: We have total 5 standard sized home windows, and 2 sets of french doors in the 1200 sq ft. total. So imagine that for heat loss. Plus we are not "completely sealed" as theres some cracks to be mudded at the ends of the now roughly finished wall, I would say we are 95% insulated at the moment. Its really pretty tight and cozy here.
Our batch rocket bell sits at 8' 4" height with the cap stones included, and take into consideration it is sitting on essentially a 1' base., so the bell is more like 7'4", it comes dangerously close to the ceiling which I sort of wanted   ... But we put some ceramic fiber board up there for now with some spacers. my ceiling above the bell is registering around 150 F I hope thats okay. Its dry wall. We might have more heat deflecting to do. We are discussing putting a small stainless steel water tank on top of the bell to act as mass and absorb all that heat directly from the bell all the while protecting the ceiling.
The batch rocket is lighting and burning and performing super amazingly, little to no smoke, very hot clean burn!  Tonight it is low of 27 degree F, and we are heading into a week of much lower temps. I will try to report on the thread as I can.
I am using a simple infrared laser thermometer, and these are the read outs:
We are burning batches of Red Oak mixed with some hickory - good dry firewood , and packing about 50% to 75% the volume of our fire box typically. I think I have loaded about 4 loads today and we are maintaining the following temps all day:
-measuring our walls at chest level on the inside of the house 1200 sq ft are sitting at a comfortable 65 degrees right now 8:20 PM
-we are on cement slab, its registering 60 degrees. Its comfortable (but as Caleb said, cement always "feels" like its draining the heat away and Im sure it is)
(We are talking about doing a clay / cow dung / sand floor and im even thinking of running copper tubing for floor heat. You might all think im crazy being in NC only, but Im thinking to prepare for arctic cold and extreme weather , can you blame me?)
-We are noticing that the heat actually is rising into the upstairs room. The upstairs room is insulated in its own way so it sits slightly cooler about 60 degrees. Its pleasant for sleeping with bedding etc. to have the cooler bedroom so that worked out nicely. I just took a reading. Originally I thought about venting the bell directly into the bedroom above, now I think it would be way to warm in the bedroom actually.
Within 10' radius of the bell, the floor registers 76-86 degrees. Now thats really cozy - too cozy. haha. Its plenty cozy. We have a woven rug a few feet from the bell , a safe distance really, and my wife is sitting reading a book, 6' from the bell and she is peaceful  and comfortable (no whining  ) . Well she seems happy and thats nice.
The bypass has not been pushed in yet so not much smoke is entering the bench yet and yet the bench measures 80 degree / 75 degrees already.
Typically we have been pushing the bypass closed when the top of the bell reads 300 degrees F, because then theres no tiny smoke escaping the bell and we notice it runs smoothly, at that time the bench will rise to 100 degrees or so and even more. I found that our bench temps reached very similar to exactly what Mr. Matt Walker showed on his recent video, regarding temps on his bench. It was kind of like 100, 80, 60 room temp going lengthwise down the bench if that makes sense. very comfy though we should invest in a cushion or some yoga blankets there for softness.
The top of the bell currently reads 267 degrees.
Were I to pack in full loads completely full, the bell easily rises to 300 degrees. - One of these nights I would be happy to try to max out the batch rocket again for temps. Previously with no full insulation, the bell would get up to 300-320. Now lets see what it can do with a fully insulated room around it.
So, Now that we have been insulated about 4-5 days, it is super easy to maintain a warm comfortable living environment with this batch rocket, all I can say is if anyone is on the fence or just learning about the batch rockets, definitely GO FOR IT ! These are definitely definitely the cleanest burning - easiest to use wood / dung fueled heaters in the world.
I am using little cedar starters and some handfuls of kindling and it easily cranks up.
I have only had to remove ash maybe once a week? a little layer of ash is insulating for the firebox.
We easily stay warm over night, some mornings I have had good enough embers to pack the whole batch box full again and it fires right back up. The bell and downstairs rests at a comfortable room temperature by the morning say 60-70 range. I will try to post in the morning after packing a full load before I take rest tonight and hopefully it will give an idea.
Yes we love drying out cow dung and heating our place with it - its a blast and so are the cows. On that note, I also want to share we are gearing up to put a little more of an outer brick skin on the bell, and eventually a cow dung/clay/lime or clay/cowdung type plaster to finish the bell and bench. we will likely leave some brick showing though!
I also just ordered a heat fan, the normal type on wood stoves, to try it out on our mini mantle above the fire box, I thought it might be helpful .
Regarding our short smoke entrance to the bench, its possible we will choose to raise up the benches at some point 6" or 1' because to be honest our style is more sitting on the rug or floor cushions anyways!, every once and a while someone sits in the corner on the bell but usually we all hang out in the middle, haha, cozy on the floor - and the hottest spot really is right in front of the fire box - so for us a hot bell and warm "bell wings" are not such an unsuitable arrangement. Maybe one day we would try that adjustment. Besides all that the bench really is quite warm! Good night!
Lastly, at times before we finished insulating the barn this last couple weeks, I had wished we had a frankenstein batch rocket, as Brian calls it, where its part masonry and part metal bell. Well I had thought about adding a can or part of a metal drum to the end of a bench or on the left side of the dead end bench , perhaps even with a bypass? possible? to basically have the option of immediate heat.
If you keep this bell going - no problem, but if you ever travel from home for long and come home to a dead cold start - having a metal section to the bell means immediate radiant heat which is what I first asked Mr. Van den Berg about - immediate heating. He was kind enough to suggest a sketch up and I intend to try this design very soon ! I must express my gratitude! We may next try building in a more immediate heat type bell because we want to build about 3 batch rockets in this here barn . We have Brian's "all-in-one" double shoe box can batch rocket, and we have the option of doing a double stack of barrels on a fire brick base which I think has great aesthetic appeal. Finally we would like to do a large Matt Walker style cook stove and I just purchased plans for his cook stove because we want to model to his creations.
Thanks to all of you, you are all such inspirations and thanks for warming your way in the world a little cleaner !!!! I really appreciate it !
Thanks, and have a good night
Alex
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