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Post by briank on Apr 17, 2018 20:01:06 GMT -8
Hello Brian, First best wishes for ease of journey to health for you both. I understand if it will be a while before any reply. It looks to me, from the pic of the upper box floor, as if you implemented the version I asked Peter about in this post but his relpy was negative on the idea. I'd love to hear how you are finding its burn when you get there. Based on what you’ve said here that Peter recommended, when (if?!) I finally get back to experimenting with this, I’ll place the “collar” around the port on the firebox side and keep it in place with a combination of ceramic cement and corse thread Torx screws with fender washers, hand tightened only, to reinforce the ceramic cement. I’ll cover the screw head/ fender washer with a thick layer of the ceramic cement. This is a good combination that I’ve already used for constructing the ceramic board shapes but I’ve been away from home for 9 weeks now keeping an eye on my mom’s care. She was in the hospital for 3 1/2 weeks then a long term acute care (“step down”) hospital, then several weeks at a rehab facility. We’re finally bringing her to my sister’s home tomorrow but I have no idea when or if we’ll get her back to my old homestead where I have my workshop and unfinished projects indefinitely on hold. She’s a tough lady - 82 years old and survived a quintuple bypass and aortic valve replacement.
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Post by briank on Apr 13, 2018 10:05:47 GMT -8
I have a couple of these left over from people deciding not to go this route, so please let me know if anyone is still interested. And if you received one or two and have any reports positive or negative, please share here. (I'm still recovering from some health trouble so I've been unable to do anything with mine yet.) Stil have any left over? Alternatively, I just emailed Temtek Solutions for a quote. Sorry, that was from two years ago, and I’m not sure if I have any left. I’m staying 2 hours from home during the week right now so I’ll have to check this weekend. Temtek went out of business. They were bought out by RefSource though they’ve kept TemTeks web address: www.temteksolutions.com/index.html
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Post by briank on Mar 4, 2018 2:54:18 GMT -8
Yes, I’ve seen that, thanks. I was just wondering if this particular recipe in this thread was amenable to similar techniques. (Maybe they all are? I don’t know yet.)
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Post by briank on Mar 3, 2018 19:28:50 GMT -8
Awesome documentation, thank you!!
I’m really looking forward to following developments in this thread.
Just out of curiosity, can this be painted or pasted on any other material? For instance, applying it to stainless steel or a kiln shelf might help strengthen a firebox roof or primary bell cap. (Suggestion - Engineer for the least competent, most error prone do-it-yourselfers to provide a very wide margin of error - and for protecting the less well educated diy folks from themselves. There’s a definite utility in over engineering.)
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Post by briank on Mar 3, 2018 19:17:29 GMT -8
Hello Brian, First best wishes for ease of journey to health for you both. I understand if it will be a while before any reply. It looks to me, from the pic of the upper box floor, as if you implemented the version I asked Peter about in this post but his relpy was negative on the idea. I'd love to hear how you are finding its burn when you get there. That looks to be similar to my build. Regarding what, in particular, did Peter reply negatively? There certainly may be new developments of which I am unaware.
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Post by briank on Feb 23, 2018 6:37:00 GMT -8
Thank you @pigbutton, it was more on the material side of the conversation that I was asking briank and peterberg to comment as their joint comments in another thread asked @karl to build a batch box stove to proove that the geopolymers are up to the job. I am on that quest and wonder what the specifications are, from their point of view, for a material to cope with the rocket environment. Is it so many fires? So many years of use? Such abrasion resistance? Such outside wall of core temp? What else that needs to be shown before it can be recommended for use in an indoor rocket installation? First and foremost, someone needs to actually do one from start to finish and document it. Until then it can’t be recommended to do it yourselfers. Has such been documented yet? Secondly, it needs to stand up to prolonged burn cycles, and without any evidence of actual or impending catastrophic failure, especially the roof of the firebox. Resistance to various temps is pointless until a working model with some evidence of longevity and documentation is achieved. Third, it needs to be shown that this can be done using standardized recipes and techniques that are well documented and illustrated and easily and reliably repeatable without long or expensive periods of experimentation. People are building these and placing them in the middle of their homes. We have already and completely established that commercial refractory materials can be used satisfactorily without endangering the end user, and they’re readily available and relatively affordable. Before recommending their use inside the home, we need some kind of documentation of the use and repeatability of geopolymers in the construction of rocket heaters. There is too much liability involved (both moral and legal) to do otherwise. (In case you’re wondering, every Continuing Medical Education conference I’ve attended every year for the last 25 years has had presentations on liability, and I had to complete separate yearly online liability courses for my malpractice insurance, so it’s something that’s always been in the back of my mind. Doctors have been successfully sued over casual advice they gave to a total stranger at a cocktail party, and I know for a fact that there are liability issues for a forum based on recommendations made there. Forum admin have a moral and legal requirement to air appropriate precautions/warnings regarding something with these levels of danger should catastrophic failure occur.)
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Post by briank on Feb 22, 2018 15:13:37 GMT -8
Excellent information. Thanks. I have some questions: - the primary air on a 6" BBR is 5.64 cu in. If the secondary air channel that goes into the port needs to be the same size, that would be 2 3/8" square with wall thickness added, wouldn't it basically take up a full 2 1/2" lengthwise of the port? - if your stainless steel pipe is 2" (3.15 sq in), isn't that the size of your "secondary" air? I'm getting a little confused by the semantics. - if you put additional holes in the door of the batch box, wouldn't that be adding to your "primary" air? again. . . I know semantics. I'm just trying to get a grasp on the concepts. Thanks again, very helpful info. I agree, it’s confusing. I originally had a 2”x1” recess for secondary air feeding into a 1.67” round stainless tube. Peter recommended a larger tube and widening the secondary air recess to at least 3”x1”, preferably 4”x1” Plus he said the ratio of primary to secondary air for the DBR configuration was closer to 1:1 than the (closer to) 3:1 (?) ratio of a traditional 6” BBR. Much of his advice I gleaned from this discussion: permies.com/t/72909/Shippable-core-kits-JanuaryFrom talking to Peter late last year, I really think the DSR configuration is still under development and thus an experimental design. I don’t think he’s had the chance to standardize it yet, so exact dimensions for all these parameters might not be established yet.
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Post by briank on Feb 22, 2018 12:40:32 GMT -8
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Post by briank on Feb 22, 2018 12:21:46 GMT -8
My apologies, folks. I just took down the eBay ads for my shippable cores because my hands are going to be full for the coming months. (I’m the primary care taker for my 82 yo mom, and she just had massive emergency cardiac surgery, so I expect to be preoccupied for the foreseeable future.)
If you’re still interested in obtaining one of the 6” BBR shippable cores and not in a hurry, get in touch with me here via private message and I’ll still make them available that way. I just can’t fulfill any eBay orders in a timely manner for the foreseeable future.
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Post by briank on Feb 22, 2018 12:09:14 GMT -8
I’m no expert but I’m certainly willing to share what I do know, which has come directly from Peter’s expert advice. These are the only specifics I know to share with you about the 6” DSR configuration.
Use the exact dimensions Peter has already recommended for a 6” BBR. Make the Venturi port 2.5”x7” in the very rear center of the firebox, right up against the rear wall. Secondary air supply tube must be placed right up against the rear wall and centered in the top port. I’m using a 2” stainless steel tube and the size of the secondary air tube must have a cross sectional area of at least that of this tube (3.15 cu in.). My secondary air delivery recess is a 4”x1” recess in the 1” ceramic fiber board underlying the split thickness firebrick floor of my firebox. The secondary air tube must extend 1/2 into the thickness of the roof of the firebox where the port is cut, and the area where the port is cut needs to be 2 1/2”-3” thick. I’m using 1” thick ceramic fiber board for my firebox roof, then placing another 1 1/2” of ceramic fiber board directly around the port and extending out about 2”.
I’m making the expansion chamber/riser directly above the firebox the same dimensions as the firebox and 7” to 8” tall then a 6” exhaust port (round or oval) at the opposite end (firebox door end).
The DSR configuration requires a lot more secondary air than that of other BBR configurations, about 1:1 primary to secondary air according to what Peter has told me in the past.
These are my best recollections and I’m certainly open to corrections/revisions. I do not own a Testo unit so I can’t provide any data for that. I can say that when I built my first 6” DSR my secondary air supply was only 2”x1” and it burned dirty until I opened up the secondary air recess to 4”x1” and drilled more holes for secondary air intake in my firebox door frame.
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Post by briank on Feb 10, 2018 19:26:16 GMT -8
Test fit, temporary while I make measurements for the masonry benches. Hearth is 96” wide, and now 27” deep since I extended it. The wood stove is 24” wide, 17” tall. The square metal box on top of it is 24”x24”x14” tall. Benches will be blind ended and 24”x24”, with 2’ bench to the right of the rocket and 4’ to the left. The metal box on top will have a 4”x6” mica glass viewport into the DSR above the firebox with a view of the port area.
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Post by briank on Feb 5, 2018 18:03:26 GMT -8
briank may have some suggestions as he's done work in converting old box stoves to more efficient cores for mass heaters, using ceramic fiber board... but would probably need pics and dimensions of your proposed unit, interior and exterior to give much useful advice on whether it could be done or how. I can't seem to tag him properly in this post but you might be able to Pm him and draw his attention to it... Or look at his past posts from his profile page and see what he has been doing with other box stoves. Thanks, I got the tag coastalrocketeer. Is there any chance you could post dimensions and/or photos of the old wood stove minervalong? Chances are that if it’s a simple plate metal wood stove it could be used for the basis of a 6” or 8” rocket mass heater system.
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Post by briank on Jan 24, 2018 17:56:45 GMT -8
The “shippable core” from this build, all boxed up and ready to “ship” - from my garage to my basement, where I’ll reassemble everything. (At least the basement has heat!)
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Post by briank on Jan 24, 2018 14:44:53 GMT -8
Has anyone attempted to use Propylene Glycol and/or Ethylene Glycol instead of or in addition to water in a tank for heat transfer for a rocket heater system? (To raise the boiling point.)
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Post by briank on Jan 24, 2018 9:08:21 GMT -8
That's super cool. How will you implement the heat exchanger? I'd personally make up a huge sheet steel bell right on top of the thing to make it look like a "conventional" stove. That’s exactly what I’m doing. I have a 14 gauge sheet metal square box that’s 24”x24”x14” tall that’s going to sit above this. It has a 6” round flue collar on the bottom rear of the box that I’m going to use as a bypass with a blast gate. Since the wood stove is only 17” deep, there will be a 7”x24” space at the rear for the exhaust to pass into two blind masonry benches. One of those benches will contain this Conservo Toledo Cooker. It is being built on a 96” long 10” tall hearth so there’s easy access to the chimney
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