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Post by Donkey on Nov 24, 2007 22:26:36 GMT -8
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Post by canyon on Nov 28, 2007 16:12:40 GMT -8
Donkey you are brilliant!
Have you cast and tried one of these turbulators yet? How about the tapered heat riser? I am inspired and making the sort of heart shape for a turbulator on the entry to my tube shell exhaust/hot water heat exchanger right now in hopes of increasing residency time and more even flow through all 21 tubes.
What is the bleeding edge?
Rocket on!
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Post by Donkey on Nov 29, 2007 11:58:10 GMT -8
I bent a piece of stovepipe into a turbulator (I like that word  ) It worked quite well, even though it reduced the volume somewhat.. We played quite a bit with various methods of creating what we called vortexers before the book was published.. We had some VERY interesting results, though it was decided not to put any of it in the book. Its just too experimental yet.. Based on what I think ive seen, these turbulators wont increase dwell much (or shouldnt).. If anything they tend to speed up the system.. I kinda think thats good though, velocity and heat are pretty well interchangable.. The turbulator I made out of stovepipe seemed to create two counter-rotating vortexes of flame that just zipped right up the pipe! I have tried one (just one) experiment with a tapered heat riser.. It was very encouraging, but again, its just too darn early to know anything or make any definite statements about it. I have made the positive part of a two part mold for producing tapered heat risers. Its designed for six inch stoves... Not much time lately to experiment though and the project sits in an (temporarily) unvisited corner of the shop. |
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Post by Donkey on Nov 29, 2007 12:02:45 GMT -8
Canyon,
Post your water heater design on here!!
Take pics of yer project and share!!
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Post by Donkey on Dec 4, 2007 10:40:17 GMT -8
I suppose I should clarify here just a bit.
It seems to me that each particle (burnt, unburned, etc) that passes through (when turbulated) does indeed take a longer path to get up the pipe... Spinning round and round rather than straight up. In effect its like having a taller heat riser (in a way) keeping everything in the heat longer and mixing it better too... (not I think, what you meant by dwell??)
What I experienced though was an apparent speeding up of the system as a whole.. It roared louder and it seemed to draw so much faster.
In fact, in our tests at Cob Cottage, we found that some kind of turbulator or other improved EVERY stove we tried it on. I understand that later, one of our forgotten experiments clogged with ash and was a real bear to fix.
How we made what we called a Vortexer at the time:
Take a short piece (like 4 to 6 inches long) of 8 inch stovepipe (the size of the system), flatten it into a square (cube, actually. Square stovepipe). Cut at two opposing corners down a couple inches and fold into fins..
These can then be stuffed into the burn tunnel or the heat riser.
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Post by Donkey on Dec 4, 2007 11:17:18 GMT -8
 ;D Its funky... But it works. |
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Post by canyon on Dec 5, 2007 0:47:17 GMT -8
Wow! You must be an architect, engineer or something to whip up the three d stuff like that. I on the other hand am stumped at the thought of having to figure out (or ask my wife to do me the favor) how to take a picture with our recently purchased digital camara and then up or down load  onto this site! I test fired my test rocket today and am pretty happy with the performance for its small size (6" riser only 20" high). It is kind of funky. I scored a small Fisher wood stove and added a 5/16" steel pipe (insulated with two kaowool layers) heat riser with a beer keg for a barrel. On top I welded another keg for future brew kettle use but for now I'm heating PP glycol for my kitchen and bathroom to be floors. Anyway, I am now looking to pipe it to my tube shell heat exchanger but I haven't built the bottom entry yet. The exchanger is 15" diameter with (21) 1 1/2" by 32" tubes going through it for the exhaust. So I am concerned with getting the 6" pipe to enter a 15"dia. by 7" high area so that the exhaust goes evenly through the 21 tubes and not just the center 9 faster. I am making a hand hole in the bottom so that I can clean ash accumulation and brush out the tubes. But I am really thinking of doing a cyclone prior to this thing to settle out ash first. Do you or anyone have any cyclone experience? I'll try to get some pics maybe after this weekend as my wife is too busy with my daughter being in our local nutcracker production. Its really her camara and she at least knows how to get pics on the computer.  |
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Post by Donkey on Dec 5, 2007 14:43:52 GMT -8
Ho Ho!! Nah.. Im an ex-digital graphics pro...  Those images are screen captures done up in Photoshop.. I use an open source 3D modeling program called Wings3D. Their website is hereI recommend you get this version though.. (look for Wings-0.98.37 on Scorpiuss page) And for good, free (again open sourced) image editing software you can use Gimp.Ill need time to think about your ash drop question.. No I havent messed with cyclones much.. Could you be more specific?? Images of your project would be helpful. |
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Post by Donkey on Dec 5, 2007 14:46:20 GMT -8
Uhh.. If you dont have web space to upload images too, I could perhaps help in this matter..
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Post by canyon on Dec 12, 2007 14:15:09 GMT -8
O.K. Donkey I took a few pictures (some are blurry but I think you can make out enough to get the idea) I'm not sure how to get them on here. Would you be kind enough to walk me through it? I tried to drag 'em from the "desktop" to here but it didn't work. I'm sorry but I'm almost computer illiterate.  Thanks, Lasse |
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Post by Donkey on Dec 12, 2007 15:14:06 GMT -8
Oy...
Well, first you gotta have access to some webspace somewhere.. A computer that is ALWAYS connected to the internet where you would put your images.
Then you can link to the images in your post, using the img tag..
Also, make sure the images are smallish.. Like 400 pixels wide by same (in the neighborhood) tall, otherwise they will take a long time to upload/download.. Especially for folks like me stuck with dialup service.
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Post by Donkey on Dec 13, 2007 20:32:39 GMT -8
Umm..
All else fails, you could just e-mail the pics to me and I can post em..
Just make sure theyre the right size first... Sometimes it takes as much as 15 minuets to download a megabyte.. Not JUST dialup, but hopelessly slow dialup...
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ernie
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by ernie on Dec 19, 2007 20:24:54 GMT -8
Donkey: you can change the dwell by slightly opening up the heat riser.
bigger heat riser lower bigger volume to fill slower gas speeds. so to my thinking a taperd heat riser with a slightly larger volume for the first 2/3's would ensure more dwell then you can taper the riser to 3/4 of the burn tunnel volume for an over all slowing of gasses to the secondary burn. the taper should act as a boost to the gas speed.
OTH it might be advisabe to try to get the gasses to dwell a bit longer in the secondary burn.
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Post by Donkey on Dec 20, 2007 0:24:50 GMT -8
ERNIE!! Great to hear your voice!!
My friend, I trust you are well..??
Yes, yes.. But larger pipes are also cooler. Its heat CONCENTRATION that were after (heat riser, pre-release).
In my various tomfooleries I have discovered that too large an initial dwell space can kill the rocket.
Seems like a tuning issue to me..
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Post by Donkey on Dec 20, 2007 0:29:25 GMT -8
Waitaminnit... You said secondary burn..
Unless yer injecting air somewhere, aint it primary burn all the way??
One gulp and all....
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) It worked quite well, even though it reduced the volume somewhat.. 
onto this site! 
