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Post by Jura on Nov 21, 2017 12:13:20 GMT -8
Shoe box also sounds nice to my ears :-)
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Post by peterberg on Nov 21, 2017 13:08:41 GMT -8
Double shoebox or duplex shoebox?
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Post by Jura on Nov 21, 2017 14:30:20 GMT -8
I'd be leaning toward double shoebox as duplex sounds too ....technocratic But the ear is from Central Eastern Europe so .. it may sound more palatable to a native ear.
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Post by patamos on Nov 21, 2017 16:21:12 GMT -8
Ya i'd say double shoe box too. Last thing i want is to get stung by any fire...
For what it is worth, the ceramic glass tops from discarded stove-ovens work very well as the top deck. Extracting them from the metal and rubber-ish gasket surrounds involves some nasty work with a grinder and organic filter mask... But they are very durable. I've burned multiple loads for hours at a stretch in a vortex and they hold up fine.
Peter, i do not wish to piss you off with design change suggestions. Only i am wondering what you might suggest if i try this upper shoe box atop a vortex size firebox (13.5" wide by 13.5" tall by 18" deep) ? I have a number of the bases already cast so am thinking of combining the shapes...
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Post by matthewwalker on Nov 21, 2017 16:55:51 GMT -8
Pat, you can simply cut the glass out of the frame with a utility knife. I don't worry about a little of the gasket on the glass, but again, you can scrape it clean with a blade if need be. Getting the glass free of the stove should take a minute with a knife and a putty scraper to gently pry.
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Post by briank on Nov 21, 2017 17:10:00 GMT -8
Pat, you can simply cut the glass out of the frame with a utility knife. I don't worry about a little of the gasket on the glass, but again, you can scrape it clean with a blade if need be. Getting the glass free of the stove should take a minute with a knife and a putty scraper to gently pry. Good to know, thanks Matt. I have had one collecting dust in the basement that’s still in the metal stove top, so I’ll just try to cut it out. The repair technician made it sound nearly impossible without breaking it. (There’s some folks over at FHC discussing replacing the center “burner” over the catalytic combustor of a Woodstock Ideal Steel Stove to improve radiation of the heat. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that over there.)
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Post by peterberg on Nov 22, 2017 2:37:02 GMT -8
Peter, i do not wish to piss you off with design change suggestions. Only i am wondering what you might suggest if i try this upper shoe box atop a vortex size firebox (13.5" wide by 13.5" tall by 18" deep) ? I have a number of the bases already cast so am thinking of combining the shapes... No, I won't be pissed off. However, the vortex design has its exit opening from the firebox at the front instead of the back, the opening turned 90 degrees as compared to the shoebox and the secondary air is quite different as I understand it. Not to mention the port is quite a bit smaller than the vortex' one. Both designs are radically different from each other in a number of ways, in my view it would be an amalgam of different details thrown together. The question is now: would such a combination work in a similar fashion as the shoebox? Very unlikely. I can't speak for the virtues of the vortex design, since there aren't any numbers available.
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docbb
Junior Member
Back from ZA
Posts: 92
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Post by docbb on Nov 22, 2017 6:02:01 GMT -8
No, not at all. I said: I'd try to mimic the original double shoebox as close as possible. Which means scaling up the whole of the double shoebox so the top box would be large enough to function as an oven. That's different than just combining parts what you seem to do. Did you ever built anything, by the way? Peter, someone will take your word! Imagine a batch shoebox, which will accommodate 4 pizzas! I just can't imagine the fuel that would be guzzling, and the temperature of the oven! In fact we are approachin the french Four à Gueulard et ses Ouras
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Post by patamos on Nov 22, 2017 11:42:47 GMT -8
Pat, you can simply cut the glass out of the frame with a utility knife. I don't worry about a little of the gasket on the glass, but again, you can scrape it clean with a blade if need be. Getting the glass free of the stove should take a minute with a knife and a putty scraper to gently pry. Ya some of them come out easy with careful slicing. Others are seriously buried in gasket and surrounding metal. And i have busted a couple by prying a bit too hard with a putty knife. Fortunately i can usually get a glass cutter shop to cut down the broken ones to 16" x 16" for tops of dragon heater style rockets.
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Post by patamos on Nov 22, 2017 13:25:06 GMT -8
Peter, i do not wish to piss you off with design change suggestions. Only i am wondering what you might suggest if i try this upper shoe box atop a vortex size firebox (13.5" wide by 13.5" tall by 18" deep) ? I have a number of the bases already cast so am thinking of combining the shapes... No, I won't be pissed off. However, the vortex design has its exit opening from the firebox at the front instead of the back, the opening turned 90 degrees as compared to the shoebox and the secondary air is quite different as I understand it. Not to mention the port is quite a bit smaller than the vortex' one. Both designs are radically different from each other in a number of ways, in my view it would be an amalgam of different details thrown together. The question is now: would such a combination work in a similar fashion as the shoebox? Very unlikely. I can't speak for the virtues of the vortex design, since there aren't any numbers available. Oh, i'd have no trouble flattening the slope of the vortex roof, and relocating the throat. Having it further back below the cook deck would relieve heat stress on the lintel above the door. I'm just wondering how best to adjust the dimensions of the throat and upper shoe box to best go with the somewhat different shape and volume of the 13.5 x 13.5 x 18" vortex firebox. The secondary air can be brought in a number of ways...
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Post by patamos on Nov 22, 2017 13:29:36 GMT -8
Peter, someone will take your word! Imagine a batch shoebox, which will accommodate 4 pizzas! I just can't imagine the fuel that would be guzzling, and the temperature of the oven! In fact we are approachin the french Four à Gueulard et ses OurasBest big pizza oven i have made or seen is a J or L feed rocket with a kiln shelf deck and low exit port. Key ingredient is only 1" of thermal mass in the dome surrounded by 3" of insulation. The whole thing is up to temps in 15 minutes and you can get a couple hours of flywheel if you run it for a while. Apologies for the topic drift...
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Post by wiscojames on Nov 22, 2017 19:53:00 GMT -8
Ooh that's good info, and confirms what I have found with my 6 inch batch box heating a brick deck and with a low, in floor exit. Also hoping to implement a version with much less riser this spring.
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Post by peterberg on Nov 30, 2017 13:28:59 GMT -8
After thinking about it for some days I think it would be best to stick to the initial name: PvdB double shoebox rocket. After all, if the batch box can be defined as a rocket combustion core, the double shoebox also can. Since they are both working along the same principals, being relatively simple to build and both are tight designs. Tomorrow I'll order a box of 25 insulating fire bricks so I will be able to change the development model in my workshop several times. And testing it, of course, probably the whole of December minus Christmas.
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Post by independentenergy on Nov 30, 2017 23:33:37 GMT -8
good news
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Post by satamax on Dec 1, 2017 2:23:51 GMT -8
DS rocket.
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