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Post by flyhigh on Oct 7, 2015 10:57:48 GMT -8
Hey guys,
This is my first post and first foray into rockets. I am going to spend this winter in the Balkans where there are basically no materials available. There are no firebricks or refractory mixes available in the entire country. I have not found any lime, perlite or vermiculite, and don't think I will. I have found cat litter 2 hours away at the specialty import store!
Thus if I went the route of making a batch box via form, it seems like my mix would be concrete, sand and clay--running the cat litter through a DIY ball mill (I have no idea how I would make a form since I have never seen a scrap of plywood here--there is drywall, so I guess I could use that and make a monstrosity). I don't know how long something like that would last, and it seems like a ton of work for something temporary for one season.
So, how long would an all metal batch box with a metal bell last? Could it make it through one or two seasons? I was thinking of just doubling the riser with a larger tube and pouring in cat litter and maybe sealing that insulating layer off at the top with clay or something. This is something that I could have made for me for the price of materials in most countries. I don't know what thickness of steel I should use to make it through a couple seasons. I would much prefer the batch box, because my only wood is traditional firewood, and I don't want to spend all winter cutting it up into twigs for a J tube, but I might go that route if I have to.
If that is a terrible idea, do you have any better ones?
Many thanks! It looks like I am about to become addicted to stove-making!
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Post by dustylfc on Oct 7, 2015 13:24:07 GMT -8
Sounds like a huge task ahead
But are you totally sure it's the balkins as this isn't a country it's a huge region of Europe from Italy Hungary etc even upto dead Sea I think named after balkin mountains please excuse me if am wrong and got my geography wrong
Anyway not to confuse things am sure there is a build on the net some were that a guy used recycled paving slabs if they are available?
Am still a virgin batch box builder myself so just trying to throw out an idea Am sure more experience members will chime in with help
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Post by satamax on Oct 7, 2015 14:31:26 GMT -8
Flyhigh, Is there red bricks there? Usualy it's findable, in romania, hungary etc. The red bricks could do the job for the box, and last a season, i'd think. I bet you don't speak the language? But whenever you are there, ask for an old bread oven which is colapsing. Or clay roof tiles, they could do the job, may be make a coarse chamotte (grog) or use as is. You will have to find some clay. Or clayish mud. Sawdust or hay for the insulation. For roof tiles, look for stuff like this. www.permies.com/t/50245/rocket-stoves/Red-clay-roof-tiles-fire If they ring like a bell, they can be used, but won't hold i think. If they thump, way better.
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 7, 2015 22:29:57 GMT -8
Dustylfc, yes I am sure that I am in the Balkans ! I just did not want to name the country while complaining about it, since the fault is not of the people. Satamax, there are red brick here. I used some to make an outdoor barbeque and they all broke on first or second use. Not of the best quality. Those roof tiles do exist, but people do not throw anything away here. Not a scrap of metal, nobody would ever part ways with old fire bricks because they can't get new ones, nothing. I do not speak the language, I can get by a bit but it is difficult. so I will keep my eye out but now I am thinking of making a chamotte with the red brick and then using cat litter and concrete...if I can find steel balls for a ball mill. Anybody have tips on proportions and how thick I would need to make the walls with that recipe? In the end if steel would hold up a season it would be a lot easier than making my tools to make my materials to make my stove. Newb question: so the sawdust/hay will burn out and the ash/charcoal will provide insulation? Could I just load it up with crushed charcoal at that point? I have that
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Post by satamax on Oct 8, 2015 1:21:32 GMT -8
Flyhigh, concrete won't work. Exept if you can find "ciment fondu" In which case you don't need anything more, exept insulation. Well, by the description of the country, that's romania. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpj-pzYX-IY www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjJVAxyfZKU What you are looking for is sobä parts. The heat riser could holt with metal, if you used 316 stainless, for quite a while. May be two three years. Lesser grades of stainless will deteriorate sooner i think. But they could hold may be a year. Other steel will deteriorate way faster. Well, i did a little search samota, for firebricks linic.ro/produs/teava-horn-maro-70cm-130/You could may be use this caramida de cos or caramida horn linic.ro/produs/caramida-horn-30x30x25-int-20x20/ To do your heat riser. Crushed charcoal could work, or very fine sieved ashes. But in a clay mix, not concrete Theses ones would be the absolute best, besides tona or schiedel, or landini tubes www.utilul.ro/constructii/caramida-cos-fum/caramida-refractara-pentru-cos-de-fum-crcf.htmlwww.e-vasion.ro/Constructii/Caramida--BCA-si-boltari/Caramida/CARAMIDA-ROSIE-COS-PATRAT/Cosuri de fum ceramice www.google.fr/search?q=cosuri+de+fum+ceramice&rlz=1T4SAVJ_enFR550FR551&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBQQsARqFQoTCO2z-9XDssgCFUe9FAodYZsDxAThe absolute best stuff for me, to make rockets the inner tubes of this system. www.rikkosteel.ro/produs/98The exact word you're looking for tub samotat or refractar www.rikkosteel.ro/fisiere/2014/01/15/Documente-Heluz.pdfwww.dedeman.ro/ro/termice/sobe-seminee/materiale-pentru-sobe/samota/tub-refractar-d-200.htmlHere, you can realy see the chamote in the clay. the little particles which makes it grainy, and refractory. www.utilul.ro/constructii/caramida-refractara/caramida-refractara-pentru-cos-fum-200-mm-crcf200.htmlEven better, tub samota down the page, long landini type tubes. Easy to make a rocket heat riser with thoses. www.italroman.ro/cosuri-de-fum/c/3You have enough for now?
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 8, 2015 1:48:49 GMT -8
Satamax, Thank you very much for that research, unfortunately Romania is a powerhouse of industry next to Albania! I will use google translate and see if I can find any local suppliers, but the wood stove stores themselves do not know where to buy this stuff.
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Post by satamax on Oct 8, 2015 2:41:47 GMT -8
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 8, 2015 2:47:46 GMT -8
OK guys, it appears that the stove guy was lying to me--what a surprise. I found a place a few hours away that carries refractory bricks and mortar. I say lying because I asked him about this place and he told me he had just been there and they had nothing.
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 8, 2015 2:50:29 GMT -8
Satamax, those places are in Kosovo, I found some supplies at Megatek in Tirana.
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Post by satamax on Oct 8, 2015 2:53:30 GMT -8
See, with the right words!
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 8, 2015 6:14:55 GMT -8
You got me on the right track!
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 24, 2015 3:52:37 GMT -8
So they only had a few refractory bricks, but I am working slowly forward and think I have more or less dealt with materials.
Next Question: I cannot make any holes for a chimney since this is not my house. I have to run 7 metres/23 ft *horizontal* to a window, with a dip to go through a doorway. There is no other option without placing the Batch box where I don't want it/where it won't heat the whole house. Is that going to work/do I need to do anything extra to make it work?
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Post by flyhigh on Oct 24, 2015 4:57:27 GMT -8
Also: How far from wall to avoid heat damage to paint?
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