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Post by daniel on Nov 6, 2015 11:44:47 GMT -8
Hi, This is the CHIMNEY CONNECTION The ceiling is made of separate slabs 28x85x8cm which I laid on angle iron, filled the gap with rockwool and clay over then I added another strip of rockwool and clay over. I should have put a layer of thin brick or something above but I wanted to eventually take the roof off and put a heat recovery/circulation unit that will blow hot air in other room and eventually into a heat battery made of rocks. When I lit this up, I am not sure it is even completely dried and without a door it does not smoke back into the room usually but depending of how I start the fire it could get a bit out since I don't have a door. To me to avoid this problem entirely is to make a bypass above to the chimney for the start and then close it. This bypass damper could close completely since it is only for the start, unlike other dampers which need to have a hole in them to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning. The connection to the chimney is for the moment as seen in the image because I wanted to add a smaller bell or a heat recovery piece over there.
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Post by daniel on Nov 6, 2015 13:02:29 GMT -8
I just want to add some conclusions I drawn from this build experience namely that there is a huge difference between the bell system and flue system in performance, the flue system in my opinion is sending hot and cold gases altoghether out the chimney since adding more flues will decrease draft and thus the performance, beside that the accumulation is in the flues which have most of the surface in the interior and will lose some of the accumulated heat to the outside less if the damper is closed. The bell makes a difference between the hot and the cold gases while not creating bends for the cooler gases that want to exit in the benefit of the draft while providing a great accumulation area for the heat. The release of the heat to the space around the heater is also optimized by the large surface area of the bell. However for the bell or an heater to work properly it needs to have a proper chimney for the selected heater. As far as the storage of the heat goes there are so many possibilities, also the distribution of heat can be optimized
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Post by dustylfc on Nov 6, 2015 13:03:25 GMT -8
Well done Daniel It was definitely drafting on the video Is the bell directly above riser and single skin ?
If I got the picture correct does the cooled gases then fall to back of stove and out the damper you have
Sorry in advance if I've got it wrong
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Post by daniel on Nov 6, 2015 13:42:56 GMT -8
The lower part of the bell is regular clay brick layed flat and upper flat is firebrick on edge, single skin, the bell is surrounding the firebox and the riser with the riser being toward the back, is exiting toward the chimney to the left, I am not sure about how the gases flow having a bigger volume above the firebox which the gases might choose because of less resistance. Maybe the bell could have been a bit higher, the inside surface of the bell is 5.76 sq meters not counting the ceiling. The uppermost row of firebrick I just measured to 100 degrees Celsius in the middle with the highest temperatures of course near the riser top and around, righ now the lower brick flat part is 50 Celsius. Judging from the temperatures around it seems to flow above the firebox, down the sides to the back and out to the left toward the brick chimney.
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Post by dustylfc on Nov 6, 2015 14:08:18 GMT -8
Daniel . I may even purchase it and install it myself. I've seen some nice kits online. What are theses kits ??
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Post by exoplasmic on Nov 7, 2015 18:07:07 GMT -8
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Post by exoplasmic on Nov 7, 2015 18:18:01 GMT -8
Daniel Thank you for showing those pictures. I like how simple and easy your build is. Mine is too complex. I hate how long it's taking to complete. Floor plan pic. www.dropbox.com/s/wlujjqmkqumt6xv/floor-plan4.jpeg?dl=0I need to buy some angle iron to support part of the ceiling next to the down-draft tube (right after the heat riser).
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Post by daniel on Nov 8, 2015 1:11:41 GMT -8
I felt that mine was taking to long to but I sped up since I needed to heat the house, however yours might extract more heat in the end because it has two bells. I did not have the time to mess with a second bell this winter but I plan to add some more heat extraction to it without reducing draft. Also I plan to add a few more elements to raise it up. According to the calculation the heater could take about 3 more sq meters of internal surface area or so. About the smokeback issue I see that I don't have any of that . I worked a whole day on the door of the heater but still not finished it. I will post pictures with it.It is an amazing door. I am thinking to start producing doors and other elements for heaters. I am very passionate about this.
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Post by daniel on Nov 8, 2015 1:14:08 GMT -8
Hi Dusty, I did not know what kits the discussion was about, yes these kits are great since you advance so fast having most of the parts if not all ready but it will cost you a bunch, however the kits will insure a working heater if you have a proper chimney but will take the pleasure of design and build.
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Post by daniel on Nov 8, 2015 1:34:18 GMT -8
About the kits mentioned above I have to say that they are a different type of heater which burns clean but it burns upwards. I think the batch box design will burn better because it will force more of the unburned gases and smoke into the secondary combustion riser which is much higher narrower and very well insulated. If properly made I think the batch box is better much more efficient than the contraflow which pushes the hot and cold gases out togheter. The exchange channels are narrow and I don't think will work that well with a bell design. The design possibilities of a batch box are much wider. I don't have result numbers here but I am sure this should be the case. The contraflow as a narrow passage like the port which will spee up the burn and the secondary chamber is above. The top needs to be right above the secondary chamber to direct the heat downwards while cooling ( a bit like the barrel in a rocket stove) I participated in a build in Denmark in 2004 where we built a huge contraflow heater with a very big bread oven and a heating copper coil on top
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Post by dustylfc on Nov 8, 2015 3:42:29 GMT -8
Hi Daniel
The kits was just curiosity to a comment made by exo I'd much prefer to build my own and experiment but mine is not to heat a home mine is for outdoor so it's not essential for me to get the build 100 % efficient
Mine also only has small footprint
Though I'd like to encourage exo to keep at it and don't give up Keep it simple am sure you will do great
Also exo are you still using the old retro fitted log burner
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Post by daniel on Nov 8, 2015 5:43:42 GMT -8
For experimental purposes you could build one very small made of metal or something else.
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Post by satamax on Nov 8, 2015 8:53:44 GMT -8
For experimental purposes you could build one very small made of metal or something else. Out of met' what?
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Post by dustylfc on Nov 8, 2015 9:24:32 GMT -8
Metal is DOOMED .......heheheh ask max. Am going to order firebricks first and build the firebox just need to know how many to order for 8 inch batch box
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Post by exoplasmic on Nov 15, 2015 18:15:50 GMT -8
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