morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 16, 2015 8:19:16 GMT -8
I've been inspired by the stoves built by Matt, Peter + Innovators, Joris etc. where they have been using ceramic risers instead of cast/brick ones so I took the plunge and purchased some insulated riser sleeves. I got a box each of 125mm x 150mm (5" x 6") & 150mm x 150mm (6" x 6") (d x h). Wall thickness is 10mm & 12mm respectively. At £1.40 & £1.90 each it wasn't a huge amount to spend on an experiment.
My brother in Spain wants a batch box in his guest annex. A 6" stove would be overkill so I've been wondering how a 5" would perform. As I had an excess of 5" riser sleeves I thought I'd test a 5" batch box with insulated riser sleeves in one go.
So here are some pictures: Riser sleeves. Middle one is out the box. Left and right were dry stacked on top of the other four. You can see the colour change. Soot on inside burns off.
I stuck the first four together and dry stacked the last two.
Performance to start with was okay but temperatures were around 200°C so decided to back fill lower part with vermiculite
Front of stove. No P-channel just a 2" round tube running the length of the firebox floor. Length is 18" so slightly too long. Have to keep fuel towards the front.
Back from different angle
I dropped some of the 6" sleeves over the 5" ones to give additional insulation to upper part. There is approx. 5mm air gap between each sleeve. These discoloured almost immediately despite not being in physical contact.
Initial observations (some have been mentioned by others before I think) The stack was surprisingly stable. I thought it would be fragile! The sleeves seem to stiffen when exposed to heat. Flicking them before gave a dull thud. After they made a similar sound to a china cup. Sweet caramel smell when first exposed to heat. Whilst I have this set up, I want to try a double riser as per the stoves Matt & Adiel/Shilo have built. Will post back as and when. Andy
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Post by peterberg on May 16, 2015 8:53:07 GMT -8
Andy, where did you get those riser sleeves? Very cheap!
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 16, 2015 9:04:51 GMT -8
Peter, supplier was Capital Refractories in Clowne, Derbyshire, England. Minimum order is a box. Packaging isn't the best as a few were damaged on arrival. Did anyone spot the schoolboy error? I had a brain freeze and forgot to put air gap under the base. After one burn the table underneath is getting too hot for comfort! Last time I used this I had a vermiculite board!
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Post by DCish on May 17, 2015 10:55:13 GMT -8
I was wondering how the table fared...
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 17, 2015 13:20:53 GMT -8
Not very well. Black scorch marks along the middle!
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Post by wiscojames on May 18, 2015 8:16:42 GMT -8
Andy - thanks for sharing your experience with this product. I suspect I will graduate to these eventually. They seem to be easier to work with and more convenient that making risers from splits or castable refractory.
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 18, 2015 9:20:01 GMT -8
Added bonus is the weight is a fraction of castable.
The section opposite the port on the first sleeve took a beating. I will file a semicircular ramp insert from insulated fire brick and slot an additional 3" wide section of sleeve to take the heat. This can be replaced if required.
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Post by photoman290 on May 19, 2015 12:36:24 GMT -8
cheers for that andy, have sent off for the catalouge strange having a website and a having to send off for a catalouge as well. still not complaining. any specs on temperature?
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 20, 2015 1:48:51 GMT -8
The rating is 1260°C which is the same for the firebrick. Another supplier does them at 1450°C with a hardened inner surface. I can send you spec sheets if you want.
Out of the box the fibres on the riser sleeves are compacted but still 'fluffy'. When I first lit the stove there was smoke permeating through the fibre sleeve. After a while it disappeared. On closer inspection after the stove cooled down the inner surface of the riser sleeves had a smooth glazed effect. It is as if the heat had fused the top layer of fibres together to form a seal.
A question to those who are using similar risers is this - is this sufficiently 'gas tight' or do I have to wrap an additional layer around the sleeve, e.g. a stainless steel flue pipe, to seal it?
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adiel
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Post by adiel on May 22, 2015 23:23:18 GMT -8
The rating is 1260°C which is the same for the firebrick. Another supplier does them at 1450°C with a hardened inner surface. I can send you spec sheets if you want. Out of the box the fibres on the riser sleeves are compacted but still 'fluffy'. When I first lit the stove there was smoke permeating through the fibre sleeve. After a while it disappeared. On closer inspection after the stove cooled down the inner surface of the riser sleeves had a smooth glazed effect. It is as if the heat had fused the top layer of fibres together to form a seal. A question to those who are using similar risers is this - is this sufficiently 'gas tight' or do I have to wrap an additional layer around the sleeve, e.g. a stainless steel flue pipe, to seal it? thanks for posting. really waiting for answers on this. why is it smoking? is it flame resistant as well as heat resistant? can it replace my casted risers? refractory cement that is up to 1250 c from gauda holland (named golite 125 i think) is about 60 $ for a bag. and after casting i put it in a kiln to cure for 20 hours. so it will be so much better to use fire bricks for the box and sleeves for the risers. i fear though that 1260 c is not enough for the new cores.
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 23, 2015 2:00:07 GMT -8
Hi Adiel I can't do any testing at the moment as I have dismantled the stove. Not sure about flame resistant - a few options would be to coat the area that is exposed to the flame with high temperature lining or use a different material for the lower riser. You use riser sleeves for the upper part. They are so easy to work with - easy to cut, stick together and very lightweight. I have been thinking about how to make the 180° bend you mentioned in another thread using the riser sleeves I have here. I can cut 45° steps and join them with refractory mortar. This is the same way they make 90° bends using steel flue pipe. An example is here. I will test this when I rebuild the stove. Andy
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Post by DCish on May 23, 2015 5:47:57 GMT -8
i fear though that 1260 c is not enough for the new cores. I wonder if you could calm down the new core by using Matthew Walker's approach of severely cutting back primary air, which has the added effect of making it burn for a longer time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 8:32:36 GMT -8
The caramel smell and smoke gives a hint to the use of starches as binder. At high temperatures starches decompose to sugars, caramelize and burn. Starches or resins are commonly used as low temperature binders for riser sleves.
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morticcio
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"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
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Post by morticcio on May 23, 2015 9:01:44 GMT -8
Karl, Thanks for the explanation. I suppose the next question is will this have a long term effect on the effectiveness of the riser sleeve? Looks like I'll need to build a stove and stress test it to find out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 10:03:11 GMT -8
Riser sleeves are disposables intended for single use.
However in casting they need to withstand liquid metal, in a stove the have only to support their own weight and withstand the heat.
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