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Post by satamax on Oct 30, 2014 13:01:48 GMT -8
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docbb
Junior Member
Back from ZA
Posts: 92
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Post by docbb on Nov 1, 2014 7:23:57 GMT -8
Daryl, KPL, A siphon om top of the fire box, could give ok results. Peter was initially experimenting with these.
Ok, so now I can't stop thinking about this.
Issues to tackle: 1. The ram horn 2. Batch box modifications 3. Dispersion/pattern of gas flow through a mass, in my case an oven (that's another toughie)
So, yes, Peter is right. It won't work. But a girl can dream...
Wandering on russian stove makers forum I found some threads about some stoves and ovens which looked to me related to the Batch Rocket 177 and others: a nice "ram" flame in this very long thread (here in p.64) you,ll find another way to achieve post combustion kind of a Flame-Thrower instead of a riser look from 0:40" could it be a mean to have a gaz "re-entry" and second post combustion to achieve a more complete use of ballast gases? I guess you'll need to open it in Chrome or in Google translation to understand the discussion
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Post by Daryl on Nov 1, 2014 8:33:28 GMT -8
As I have said previously, I have seen the ram before on other stoves. Builders should consider what the double vortex actually does and what purpose is it going to serve. When I was thinking of what it would be like to build a vertical rocket and oven, it wasn't the stove in the second video but I do appreciate the post. It is cool to see people trying new things.
I believe the ram is enough to mix the gases as long as it is done in a confined environment.
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kpl
New Member
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Post by kpl on Nov 2, 2014 12:27:37 GMT -8
By the way, I actually tried to stack some bricks. Did not expect a lot, as materials were soaking wet and just above freezing, and just stacked, without clay. Did not have any really dry firewood too. It was difficult to start, as the smoke did not want to go to riser, but when it started, it burned quite well. Draft was quite good even when I placed a barrel over the riser. Sorry for the crappy video, it's just a phone and I had only a headlight. Do not have any heat resistant glass either, to be able to see inside. youtu.be/sclwelzo6DYChannel to the riser was located in the ceiling, at the very end of the firebox. Then gases went into riser, which had a step in it, to make a bit of turbulence, then just normal square riser. Did not make a special secondary air channel, as it had plenty of open seams anyway.
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Post by satamax on Nov 2, 2014 14:12:04 GMT -8
If you want to film what's going on in a heat riser, use a miror.
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kpl
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kpl on Nov 2, 2014 22:28:35 GMT -8
If you want to film what's going on in a heat riser, use a miror. That was visible well enough, but there was no way to film what's happening in the firebox. Features mentioned in that russian forum look interesting enough, probably I can get better mixing if that step in a riser is more pronounced. Will check that forum as well, fortunately language is not a problem. Has anyone seen their "ancient aryan stove" mentioned elsewhere, or is it just another misinterpretation, as is usual in russia-based sites?
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Post by satamax on Nov 2, 2014 22:39:44 GMT -8
Yes, that was visible, but with a miror angled at 45°, you don't risk your camera, you don't burn your hands either! Chimple enough nay?
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kpl
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kpl on Nov 2, 2014 23:30:47 GMT -8
Yes, I had seen that trick, but this particular setup did not require that.
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Post by Daryl on Nov 13, 2014 3:47:21 GMT -8
I finally got enough time to search out a picture of a downdraft OWB. I'm posting this to give an example of why there shouldn't be a need for the port to always be at the end of the firebox. The port could probably go on top as well (flip the picture) with an exhaust flue at the end of the "vortex tunnel".
Downdraft Outdoor Gasifiers, you can find more examples on the internet.
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Post by Daryl on Nov 13, 2014 4:25:09 GMT -8
I guess the best way to visualize this is to think of the burn chamber and heat riser side by side horizontal instead of in an L shape or to have a sideways L with the heat riser horizontal.
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cab
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by cab on Nov 13, 2014 8:01:57 GMT -8
There is a swedish gasification downdraft wood boiler that is actually natural draft so that provided you have the draft, it should be possible to get a downdraft unit to work...There is also a german, I think, wood stove that with the flip of a lever, reroutes the flue gasses down through the fire and becomes a downdraft heater...
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kpl
New Member
Posts: 47
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Post by kpl on Nov 14, 2014 2:09:28 GMT -8
Seems like downdraft burning means it's the lowest part of load that is actually burning, so adding more fuel during the burn affects the burn less.
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Post by doggy1969bc on Nov 20, 2014 14:34:32 GMT -8
if you want up draft make the port half way and to the end and put the chimney on the front , above the fire box ,make a chamber ,the chamber where your gasses come into would be +- 3/2 of the csa of the stove and well insulated then the normal riser as proposed by peter , the opening at front to the riser would be the same as csa ,but as low as possible meaning that there is a small ridge on top of the room before entering riser, making the portal room as a kind of mixing room like a carburator
just me flying by with my silly ideas kind regards doggy
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Post by Daryl on Nov 20, 2014 15:26:32 GMT -8
if you want up draft make the port half way and to the end and put the chimney on the front , above the fire box ,make a chamber ,the chamber where your gasses come into would be +- 3/2 of the csa of the stove and well insulated then the normal riser as proposed by peter , the opening at front to the riser would be the same as csa ,but as low as possible meaning that there is a small ridge on top of the room before entering riser, making the portal room as a kind of mixing room like a carburator just me flying by with my silly ideas kind regards doggy
No idea is silly. I have seen this concept on a couple commercial metal stoves.
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Post by Daryl on Nov 21, 2014 3:23:57 GMT -8
Doggy, I was tired last night so I didn't really answer this properly. You are right on with the "portal room". I am only starting to learn about the design of metal woodburning stoves. Many of these have that "portal room". A secondary chamber for combustion. What I have learned about fire is there will be residuals left after the main burn. A "portal room" takes care of the residuals.
I know there is a bad rap for metal woodburning stoves but the newer ones do follow many principles of science. I believe there is always something to learn. As much as I can, I try to study the designs of various stoves, from masonry to metal.
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