adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 25, 2014 10:38:05 GMT -8
hi all this system by joris is amazing. we have seen it and it inspired us but we wonder if we can in israel do without lots of radiation from metal. robert - did you see it when the the door opens? how is it that no smoke is coming out? independentenergy - my idea - think about a box that the riser is not attached to the back but is coming from inside the box. the box is of course wider and maybe taller but the volume is about the same. the result will be in the design - it will be possible to create a stove that is square and high and not invading into the space so much.
piters idea of side riser is also an option and we wish to test it soon.
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Post by mintcake on Mar 25, 2014 11:42:55 GMT -8
hi all this system by joris is amazing. we have seen it and it inspired us but we wonder if we can in israel do without lots of radiation from metal. robert - did you see it when the the door opens? how is it that no smoke is coming out? independentenergy - my idea - think about a box that the riser is not attached to the back but is coming from inside the box. the box is of course wider and maybe taller but the volume is about the same. the result will be in the design - it will be possible to create a stove that is square and high and not invading into the space so much. piters idea of side riser is also an option and we wish to test it soon. Adiel, I don't know if you've thought of this or not, but out of the many sketchup models I've drawn so far my wife likes best one with a floor-plan which is a "triangle with the corners cut off". She thinks it looks non-invasive. I'll try and sketch it below in ascii.. Imagine all the sloped lines as meeting at 90 degrees. ###/\ # / /\ #/ / \ #O #=^ ########
(=^ is the chimney connection) The idea is that it hides away in the corner of the room, but the firebox faces the centre of the room, rather than being close to a wall. It's arranged so that the heat riser is almost in the back corner, but it's offset slightly so that there is more volume on the right (as drawn above). I can probably put the sketchup drawings up somewhere, but since our hundred year old house is parallelogram rather than rectangular there aren't many right angles in it.
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adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 25, 2014 14:13:59 GMT -8
mmm. i dont understand. please a sketchup drawing?
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morticcio
Full Member
"The problem with internet quotes is that you can't always depend on their accuracy" - Aristotle
Posts: 371
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Post by morticcio on Mar 25, 2014 23:12:45 GMT -8
"triangle with the corners cut off". Do you mean a corner stove - maybe something like this one from the Netherlands?
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Post by mintcake on Mar 26, 2014 4:14:15 GMT -8
Do you mean a corner stove - maybe something like this one from the Netherlands?
WHo needs sketchup when you've got someone with a camera! That's pretty much it, except the one I'm working on is smaller. How big is the system size for that one? Do you know? The stove looks far bigger than my plans relative to the batchbox, and I thought I was at the upper limit.... makes me wonder if I've got something horribly wrong in my ISA calculations.
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Post by independentenergy on Mar 26, 2014 5:54:20 GMT -8
Do you mean a corner stove - maybe something like this one from the Netherlands?
WHo needs sketchup when you've got someone with a camera! That's pretty much it, except the one I'm working on is smaller. How big is the system size for that one? Do you know? The stove looks far bigger than my plans relative to the batchbox, and I thought I was at the upper limit.... makes me wonder if I've got something horribly wrong in my ISA calculations. I also saw that stove on the net .. and it's really big, I think most of the ISA limit recommended for batchbox. But I've seen pictures of the building and using a bypass, I think with a bypass can increase quite a bit ISA above the estimated capacity for a batchbox.
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adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 26, 2014 12:27:38 GMT -8
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Post by peterberg on Mar 26, 2014 14:59:39 GMT -8
OK guys, you are on the right track. A few questions: are all the dimensions the same as a 150 mm system? Are all the leaks sealed?
Possible amendments: A vertical triangle in the left hand back corner. A 45 degrees chamfer at the right hand side of the port. Adding a proper p-channel.
The videos do show a healthy running stove, the riser does show a quite realistic impression of a flame thrower. When properly tuned, this could be a great alternative in my opinion.
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Post by satamax on Mar 26, 2014 21:36:45 GMT -8
Is it an impression, or the ceiling of the box seems a bit high?
Anyway, adiel, a good trick is to have a lip at the front end of the box, on top, so smokeback kind of rolls back in.
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adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 26, 2014 21:38:51 GMT -8
peter
thanks for the encoregment its a 170 mm system the leaks are sealed with sticky aluminum foil. chage it to cob?
we will try the amendments. the p channel is ok though. it dosent look like it in the videos but its because we added a metal piece at the side of the door so it wont through air to the door.
how is it that you light your stove without the door? can you do it without the stright stack chimney? we expirience smoke coming out the door in the batch box with the stight riser.
apdates soon...
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Post by mintcake on Mar 27, 2014 4:22:14 GMT -8
Possible amendments: A vertical triangle in the left hand back corner. A 45 degrees chamfer at the right hand side of the port. Adding a proper p-channel. To me it also looks like the right hand wedge is going to be blocking the airpath at the bottom. I wonder if it could be made to slope down as it gets to the port. I wonder if Peter's chamfer is vertical or horizontal.. First time I thought it was altering the right hand side of the port itself, (adjusting the right hand (front-most) edge of the port itself). Now I realise he might mean just fixing the same problem I noticed. David.
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adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 27, 2014 16:18:31 GMT -8
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Post by satamax on Mar 28, 2014 0:23:11 GMT -8
Adiel, your batch box shows pretty much the same reactions as mine. Peter said few things which helped, , first of all don't block the port. I think your side port might even more sensitive to this. Secondly, don't load more than 2/3 of the batchbox height wise. well, i manage to load it more with thick pieces. But with little pine pieces as you're using, that is too much fuel for the air entering the stove. Thirdly, remember what i said three or four posts above. I can run it open, with a lip on the front top of the batchbox. You might even be able to do this with two bricks on their side at the bottom of the box. The thing is to create a restriction, so the air entering the box goes faster (description of a venturi somewhat) So the smoke is kept inside. I have a bent piece of steel with a grid which serves as a door. Here you can see the two door grids i'm using. They just hang on the front.
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Post by peterberg on Mar 28, 2014 1:25:23 GMT -8
we think we will make longer port by twisting the riser more clock wise. peter - in you batch box, can you work with open door through out all the burn? Frankly, I don't think making the port higher and/or narrower will help much, if at all. It has something to do with the mechanics of heating up of the whole thing. Probably it would work better when it's coupled to an adequate chimney. When the stove is heating up, the chimney stack will do the same, providing a progressively stronger draw which is missing now. As far as I can see your prototype is reacting the same as mine when ran outside. And yes, my workshop stove is able to run without any door at all, but not filled to the top and not with small fuel. Moreover, opening the door in mid-run will emit smoke inevitably. So when you want to run it without door the stove will behave differently. But don't run it with a door and open it at the highest peak of the burn. I'd still think you are on the right track, maybe it's time to take the next step and build one complete with the barrel, bench pipes and chimney. Any makeshift setup will do as long as the riser isn't belching flame anymore Max, the normal batch box is sensitive to fuel in the port itself, not so much to blockage. But in the side riser setup the longer fuel can't be shoved into the port.
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adiel
Junior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by adiel on Mar 29, 2014 3:35:33 GMT -8
thanks peter for your guidance. we will try to couple it and post resolts
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